"I work inan area with a lot of non natives and we seem to have the same problem with them refusing to be transported and yes ,the tribal police and the State police will usually sign off .so I guess it's not just a native american problem"
"Fortunately, this is something we only very rarely come across in Saudi because alcohol is illegal here. However, in my experience from the states, if you tell them they can come with you, or go with the police, they come with you. Some, you may…"
"There are a number of different issues being discussed here.
The fist one I noticed is the discussion of the correct scale to use in determining proper mental capability. There really is no one thing that covers it all, I do feel however people do…"
"Reasonable cause. Think of it like this. a bartender, if they serve a knowingly intoxicated person, because they just served him or her his 10th shot or a person comes in with slurred speech, blood shot eyes as well as other indicators of being…"
"yeah he doesn't want to go, presents mental and legal capacity with displayed competence, he doesn't go.
It is a little pet peeve for me when people say they are "calling medical control for a refusal (SOR)" They don't…"
"You don't take him. Easy for medical control to sit on the fat achers and set unachievable expectations in the real world.
Got any worries get the coppers to deal with him as a public safety matter rather than a medical one."
"I say use your common sense, look at your patient, are they competant enough to understand the consequences of treatment refusal - take into account why you were called there, what you find when doing obs, primary and secondary survey - they must…"
"An interesting and pertainent discussion. Two points that I think might also impact decisions.
Sometimes people who are intoxicated either are not truthful or don't remember their intake. "I only had two."
We don't know where…"
"Here in NH we would get the police involved and they would put the patient into protective custody and then they would join us for the trip to the hospital. Most of our intoxicated patients are just that, intoxicated to the point they can't…"
"I think the best and easiest way to look at it is this.
Don't seperate being intoxicated from any other Medical Condition. Add it too your list of Medical conditions can can cause Altered Mental Status, depressed CNS and yes, death. Simple as…"
I worked in a system with the same protocol "2 to wakeup, 2 for the road", never had a problem. I mentioned this in the system I work in now and WOW the fireworks I saw! Of course, the first system I did multiple narcan wakeups a…"
"It seems everyone is very concerned from a Medical Liability Issue perspective. Understandable.
But, as a Paramedic and Police Officer let me provide 2 perspecitves.
1st: If you have an intoxicated patient and release him and he dies/suffers…"
"I'm putting you under Medical Arrest! You are in violation of paramedic penal code section 4, paragraph 3, section B which gives us the right to place you under medical arrest.
Tom Bouthillet said:No, defensive medicine is not…"
"I have read many of the post and although I agree with much of what was said I find that one little bit of information which would be useful in determining if a refusal is a no go is the enviroment the person is in. I believe this along with…"
"Asytole. Lack of contractility from the lack of any electrical activity. Clearly this is the case. Maybe asynapse is more appropriate.
I completely understood your post. I'm aware of all the water fairies owning EMS but that's for a…"