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Safety and Religion
Orthodox Jewish Medics Say Beard Ban Discriminates
It has been a continuous debate; when do rules regarding safety compromise personal religious beliefs? Some issues, such as the matter of dreadlocks and the District of Columbia Fire/EMS Department, gain notable attention. Others are not as well known.
In Baltimore County, Maryland, three volunteer firefighters, who are Orthodox Jews, say that a department requirement to be clean shaven discriminates against them. While the practical part, especially for SCBA facepieces, is evident we'd like to know your thoughts. Much of the comments on Facebook center mostly on appearance, that it looks "unprofessional." Some see that this applies equally to N95 and other respirators. Others share that they have mustache, gotee, beard and pass required fit-testing.
- How does your department handle matters of religious beliefs and job requirements?
It has been a continuous debate; when do rules regarding safety compromise personal religious beliefs? Some issues, such as the matter of dreadlocks and the District of Columbia Fire/EMS Department, gain notable attention. Others are not as well known.
In Baltimore County, Maryland, three volunteer firefighters, who are Orthodox Jews, say that a department requirement to be clean shaven discriminates against them. While the practical part, especially for SCBA facepieces, is evident we'd like to know your thoughts. Much of the comments on Facebook center mostly on appearance, that it looks "unprofessional." Some see that this applies equally to N95 and other respirators. Others share that they have mustache, gotee, beard and pass required fit-testing.
- How does your department handle matters of religious beliefs and job requirements?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by blair4630 on -
Haven't even read the article...don't have to. If you have a beard, you can't pack up. If you can't pack up, you can't be a firefighter. I know that sounds simple.....it is.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on -
Blair, actually, your information is not completely correct. Several Washington, D.C. firefighters who are Muslims and Orthodox Jews won a court case after they were ordered to shave their beards due to wearing SCBA. The court ruling says that their freedom of religion trumps the safety issue.
The current SCBA fit test is overkill, and it doesn't guarantee a mask seal in the real world - two reasons why it's not validated. The mask is fit-tested in negative pressure, even though it is never used except in positive pressure.
The best answer is probably a full-face helmet/mask combined unit similar to a full-helmet dive rig.
That would eliminate face seals as an issue, it would eliminate fit testing, and it would allow facial hair unless the department prohibited it as a grooming standard.
And...there are thousands of firefighters who do not "pack up". Forestry firefighters generally don't even have SCBA on their apparatus.
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Permalink Reply by TheCannulator on -
Here for example the Australian Standard is clean shaven. That therefore covers everything subsequently to department policy to insurance and workplace safety laws.
These three volunteered. Just play the game. I'm not concerned about the specific/particular religion, however it's the putting your foot down aspect that has a greater impact. God or your preferred deity will still love you.
Occupational health and safety is the overriding principle. If we accommodate, then we do.
However do we down stretchers to alow multiple prayer sessions? Do we we change the roster to accommodate a non holy day worker?
Interesting observation though, Jews more importantly orthodoxy are allowed to work on the sabbath and use technology if it is the course of saving lives which they hold preciious as a tnet of their religion. Why then can't a few follicles be sacrificed?
Perhaps they could become just medics and not firemen?
As for the dreadies? What gives?
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Permalink Reply by Joe P. on -
I wonder how fast they would be screaming if a Muslim woman started fighting to wear a hijab while on duty.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Rubin on
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I think flexibility on both sides is the key. When religious preferences or customs don't compromise the health or safety of anyone other than the practitioner, maybe agencies could handle that with signed waivers of liability.
Tolerance is a factor, too. During medic school I did a couple of rotations in NYC with an Orthodox Jew who, if I understood correctly, was not supposed to remain in the presence of a corpse. We did a couple of cardiac arrests that day that were pronounced on scene. My preceptor allowed the other student to wait outside while we cleaned up. No big deal.
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Permalink Reply by blair4630 on
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No big deal, yet.....when that student becomes the crew chief, and there's a distraught family inside that residene that needs attention from EMS prior to arrival of coroner, priest (or whatever), family, neighbors, etc....then what?
Again, respect religious norms when feasible. But guess what, being around corpses is a (not daily) part of our job.
Mike Rubin said:BR>
Tolerance is a factor, too. During medic school I did a couple of rotations in NYC with an Orthodox Jew who, if I understood correctly, was not supposed to remain in the presence of a corpse. We did a couple of cardiac arrests that day that were pronounced on scene. My preceptor allowed the other student to wait outside while we cleaned up. No big deal.
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Permalink Reply by blair4630 on
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Ben Waller said:Blair, actually, your information is not completely correct. Several Washington, D.C. firefighters who are Muslims and Orthodox Jews won a court case after they were ordered to shave their beards due to wearing SCBA. The court ruling says that their freedom of religion trumps the safety issue.
I was unaware of that ruling. Does that mean their freedom of religion trumps your and my safety too? When their partially sealed masked allows them to take a nice big gulp of hydrogen sulfide, cyanide, CO, and 100 other particulates and they go down, and you or me is their partner, or now we're in trouble for their decisions too.
The current SCBA fit test is overkill, and it doesn't guarantee a mask seal in the real world - two reasons why it's not validated. The mask is fit-tested in negative pressure, even though it is never used except in positive pressure.
Well, better to be fit tested with "overkill" standards, than just enough needed. Also, nothing's a garuntee, but it's better than fitting it by feel. I understand what you're saying, but it's what we have. It's also very similar to the test the military uses for their gas masks, and facial hair standards (while there for other reasons also) equally apply there for the same reasons...mask seal.
The best answer is probably a full-face helmet/mask combined unit similar to a full-helmet dive rig.
That would eliminate face seals as an issue, it would eliminate fit testing, and it would allow facial hair unless the department prohibited it as a grooming standard.
Well, if their freedoms trump safety, they'll certainly trump any department's standards, in that court anyway.
And...there are thousands of firefighters who do not "pack up". Forestry firefighters generally don't even have SCBA on their apparatus.
Yeah, I know...when it said Baltimore, MD...I wasn't thinking of wildland firefighters.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Rubin on
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blair4630 said:No big deal, yet.....when that student becomes the crew chief, and there's a distraught family inside that residene that needs attention from EMS prior to arrival of coroner, priest (or whatever), family, neighbors, etc....then what?
Again, respect religious norms when feasible. But guess what, being around corpses is a (not daily) part of our job.
Maybe everyone just moves to another room? Or maybe the provider spends a few minutes with the family at the deceased's side before departing? With flexibility on both sides, I have to believe there's room for compromise.
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Permalink Reply by Duncan Hitchcock on -
SO, has anyone checked with fire departments in Israel to see how they address this?
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Blair,
"When their partially sealed masked allows them to take a nice big gulp of hydrogen sulfide, cyanide, CO, and 100 other particulates and they go down, and you or me is their partner, or now we're in trouble for their decisions too."
How many firefighters have gone down from hydrogen sulfide, cyanide, CO, and 100 other particulates and then gone down and put their partner in trouble? I read every U.S. LODD and LOD near-miss report as part of my job, and the answer is "none that has ever been proven".
The prototype SCMA helmet that mounts to a neck piece (like full-helmet dive gear) doesn't require a face seal at all. ZZ Top could wear that helmet and SCBA without any problem.
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Permalink Reply by blair4630 on
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BR>How many firefighters have gone down from hydrogen sulfide, cyanide, CO, and 100 other particulates and then gone down and put their partner in trouble? I read every U.S. LODD and LOD near-miss report as part of my job, and the answer is "none that has ever been proven".
So, in reality, you don't think a full beard will a) cause a seal probelm and b) if it does, won't run people into trouble?
The prototype SCMA helmet that mounts to a neck piece (like full-helmet dive gear) doesn't require a face seal at all. ZZ Top could wear that helmet and SCBA without any problem. Well, like anything else, if it's out now on the market, most of us will see it in 20-30 years, so the equipment at hand now will be, and continue to be, for a very long time, the relevant equipment to discuss in terms of problems or potential problems.
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Permalink Reply by Duncan Hitchcock on
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No one? Would seem kinda logical to see how this question in addressed in countries of a theocratic nature; both our brothers of Muslim and Jewish states. I've seen pictures of EMS responders in the Middle East with beards. But I don't recall any pictures of fire fighters with beards. Interesting.
Wonder how countries with such fundamental religious sects address the safety of their fire fighters?
Duncan Hitchcock said:SO, has anyone checked with fire departments in Israel to see how they address this?
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