Additional Courses for Paramedics?

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Permalink Reply by Skip Kirkwood on September 18, 2012 at 7:27am

Those are all of the generally recognized merit badge courses.

How about coursework in

Mental Illness

Community Health and Social Work

Negotiation Techniques and Verbal Judo

Physical Fitness (almost anything will help)

Leadership

Operations Analysis

Financial Management

Health Care Administration

Marketing and Public Relations

Languages (Spanish, Mandarin Chinese, Russian)

Heck, that sounds like an undergraduate and a graduate degree!

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Permalink Reply by Tim Montague on September 18, 2012 at 8:59am

Hi Skip, yes, the list above does represent very specific tools in the tool box, each with a focused and defined applicability. Yours are all fantastic suggestions, and certainly applicable to patient interaction and care as a provider as well, the question however is 'where' is coursework such as this available to those interested? If you have any links I would ask that you please share them, because I can say that at my local college, no such specific courses exist as stand alone components, but rather as embedded components in the pursuit of other degrees, perhaps with the exception of a particular language course.

My hope for this thread is to offer anyone interested and seeking out opportunities to compliment their existing skill level with additional training links and resources to empower them towards greater success in their careers. If you have any specific resources you can share, along with links to them that would be fantastic! I know personally I am more than interested in some of those, such as negotiation techniques and mental illness, since those two specifically have such potential in direct patient contact.

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Permalink Reply by Geri Jacobson on September 18, 2012 at 11:25am

CCP-C and FP-C are just tests which can be passed relatively easily by using one of the q&a books available.  The thing about this type of cert is a good test taker or guessor can pass without ever being formally trained in critical care.

 

Any college course in business, anatomy, physiology, microbiology, health care management etc would be more beneficial.  They may not be specifically listed as "EMS" but can usually be found at most major community colleges and universities.  Some may be college credit courses and some might be professional development as continuing education.  There are also degree tracks for health and public safety management which have financial and leadership classes. But, as an undeclared major or even with a declared major it is usually no problem to pick up some of these courses.  If you become familiar with the college scene you can use it as a buffet of knowledge.

 

For continuing education you can find courses at hospitals and community colleges. These include various assessments of neuro or cardiac patients, IV infusions, burn patients, indwelling catheter access, geriatrics, pediatrics, high risk maternal care, altitude medicine, sepsis, infection control, cardiac medications, EKG interpretation, lab values etc..  

 

With a good foundation of college course work and the right CEs, it will make the weekend certs more meaningful than just getting a merit badge in essentially a no fail class.  Even ACLS and PALS carry very little weight and some hospitals teach their own form of these classes to ensure competency rather than having people just bring in a card to show they sat through a class.  A generic PALS or ACLS course is great unless you work in areas of specialty care or where you should already have most of the training and education in the courses. Then, the bar is set higher.

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Permalink Reply by Scott Lancaster on September 18, 2012 at 3:08pm

I would stick with Skip on this one. While the courses you brought up are good, they are normally weekend length and not very in-depth. The college based courses that Skip mentioned are all great (and I had to take them all I think for my undergrad.).

I do disagree with Geri about the CCP-C, and FP-C exams. They are not relatively easy and a lot of people fail them. They are equivelant in knowlege base to the CCRN/CFRN exams, (not in the experienced suggested to take the CCRN, just the didactic knowledge).

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Permalink Reply by Skip Kirkwood on September 18, 2012 at 8:37pm

There are many colleges that offer such courses - you may have to register as an auditor or non-matriculated student to do so.

Some of the leadership and fitness classes may be in the "continuing education" section of your local community college.

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Permalink Reply by Geri Jacobson on September 18, 2012 at 9:50pm

Scott Lancaster said:

I would stick with Skip on this one. While the courses you brought up are good, they are normally weekend length and not very in-depth. The college based courses that Skip mentioned are all great (and I had to take them all I think for my undergrad.).

I do disagree with Geri about the CCP-C, and FP-C exams. They are not relatively easy and a lot of people fail them. They are equivelant in knowlege base to the CCRN/CFRN exams, (not in the experienced suggested to take the CCRN, just the didactic knowledge).

I know several California Paramedics who have taken the FP-C without taking the CCEMTP or having any critical care experience and have passed.  Most  just bought the book EMS websites and thought it was very easy.

 

Do not confuse the CCRN and the CFRN. They are from different testing organizations and have different requirements.  Do a little online research to know what each test actually is before you make a statement saying they are the same.

 

At least with the CCRN, the RNs taking it have at minimum an Associates degree and must have some ICU experience in the age group they are testing for. If they want to test for another age group, they must have more experience with that age. 

 

But I will agree the CCFN is not that difficult although I had a few years of critical care experience so it was stuff that I should have already known from actual experience and my education.

 

Yes, alot of people do fail them but then alot of Paramedics would like to work a flight job who take the FP-C and are not adequately prepared for them. There are very few places for a Paramedic to obtain critical care experience and the 2 week very basic CCEMT-P course hardly makes one ready for intense ICU patients.

 

@Skip, you should not have to  just audit these college courses unless you are unsure you can make the grades. I suggest if you spend the time in class you should earn credit and work towards a degree. Being in EMS should not alienate you from the benefits of a college education and there are many paths and choices towards higher education which can benefit anyone in healthcare.  People from many different health care professions take college courses and some work towards another degree and some claim the credit courses as continuing ed also. Dual benefit.  It seems as if some do not see "EMS" in the title they automatically assume it is not for them or it might be one of those "nursing" type courses which some seem to see no benefit of having or that a critical care course offered to nurses couldn't possibly be good enough for a Paramedic.  Maybe the educators and mentors in EMS should start becoming more knowledgable in college degrees and various educational resources to guide the future EMTs and Paramedics toward higher education rather than just staying with the tech cert world.   I do hear some Paramedic students say after they finish their "cert" they can get all the extra alphabet but very few talk about going to the Associates degree even if they are taking the course at a community college and it might only take a few extra classes.  I think that is rather short sighted on the instructors and career counselors' part at the schools and may be shorting your profession in the long run.   But then that goes into the education thing again.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Geri Jacobson on September 18, 2012 at 10:07pm

To the OP:

If you just want quick certs:

C-NPT (Neo/Pedi Transport)

http://www.nccwebsite.org/certification/Exam-detail.aspx?eid=26

ABLS (Burns)

http://www.ameriburn.org/ablscoursedescriptions.php

 

Emergency Medical Patients: Assessment, Care and Transport (EMPACT)

https://empactonline.org/whatisempact

 

NRP (Neonatal Resuscitation Program)

http://www2.aap.org/nrp/

FARMEDIC Cert
http://www.farmedic.com/

 

Advanced Medical Life Support (AMLS)

http://www.naemt.org/education/amls/ALMScourses.aspx

 

Geriatric Education for Emergency Medical Services (GEMS)

 

There are also a few hazmat and disaster certs you can pick up.

FEMA has online courses.

http://training.fema.gov/

 

You can get various certs in water or snow rescue and wilderness medicine.

Others like CHT and DMT require actual work experience and aren't exactly weekend certs.

http://www.nbdhmt.org/dmt.asp

There are numerous others but some are very specialized such as for neonates, high risks maternal care and management of congenital cardiac anomalies which the classes are open to Paramedics but they are usually presented by RN, NPs, PA or RRTs.

 

I also just noticed EMS has a national association called the NAEMT which offers alot of extras like leadership.

http://www.naemt.org/education/leadershiptraining.aspx 

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Permalink Reply by Skip Kirkwood on September 19, 2012 at 6:52am

Geri, I'm not trying to psychoanalyze the guy or make political statements.  He asked how he could take such coursework without taking the associated full program, so I provided a simple declarative answer without making political statements.  If you don't want to enroll in the larger program, you can audit or make some other arrangement.  Full stop.  It's not always about academics or nurse-paramedic politics.

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Permalink Reply by Tim Montague on September 19, 2012 at 7:31am

I greatly appreciate everyone's input into this topic, all of which is valid and relevant. IMO there is value in everything, value in weekend certs and value in structured accredited courses. Each provide something different. I'm not saying that a two week TC3 course is going to make anyone a supermedic, any more than a Bachelors in EMS will. The value of Certs is exposure, familiarity, and introduction... the value of accredited course pursuit is greater in-depth understanding of scope and practice. Neither of which really means much of anything without the catalyst of experience.

Everyone who comes across this thread must evaluate for themselves their objectives and the available educational opportunities to them and decide which is best suited for them, the level of care they provide and their career path.

As 'professionals' we are all challenged with creating opportunities to elevate ourselves professionally, and elevate our profession as a whole to ensure that we provide the best care we can at anytime, and earn the respect of our peers through demonstrated competency. It is not just about the alphabet behind our name, but instead how we perform when called upon.

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Permalink Reply by Geri Jacobson on September 19, 2012 at 11:11am

Skip,

All I said was you don't have to waste the chance to earn good college credit which could be applied toward a degree later by just auditing.  There are many classes which are electives just outside of the core programs which allow students to take for credit.  You do not have to declare yourself for a major to take alot of the courses offered in a college.  This can be in management, nursing, lab or just about any program.  Many students who are now in the Allied Health and Nursing programs started by taking a few science classes or even accounting just to get an idea about what is out there.   One of these classes might even inspire an EMT or Paramedic to continue towards a degree. If the course was just audited, that credit is not going to be applied unless it is taken again for credit.  Some people become professional students until they realize all of the credits they have been earning makes them eligible to graduate with a degree of some type.
 
Skip Kirkwood said:

Geri, I'm not trying to psychoanalyze the guy or make political statements.  He asked how he could take such coursework without taking the associated full program, so I provided a simple declarative answer without making political statements.  If you don't want to enroll in the larger program, you can audit or make some other arrangement.  Full stop.  It's not always about academics or nurse-paramedic politics.

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Permalink Reply by Geri Jacobson on September 19, 2012 at 11:59am

Your comment looks like you are for the "street smarts" side of training.  Street smarts can also  be called experience and it is most effective if you have the education behind you to differientiate between solid critical thinking and folk lore.  All professions have some things that keep repeating just because that is how they have always been doing them rather than asking why or if there is a better way.   This is why nursing is advancing towards the BSN as entry. Exposure to reading the literature and wading through all the studies to see how it can be applied to the clinical experience can also make you a better Paramedic.

 

If you want advancement, you do need to show something other than a technical certificate and a few alphabet classes. Some employers may see a degree as a way to show you took your career serious enough to attend enough classes to get a Bachelors degree.  They may see that as a forward thinker or someone who plans for the future.  Of course some employers may also just operate on the warm body mentality or don't want those who might have a higher education than what they have.

 

Health care is also a business and regardless of how well you perform on the street, there are some things which you should learn about the whole system in order to improve your clinical delivery. This might be as simple as acquiring new equipments which could be a million dollar adventure of red tape or the reimbursement issues such as what is occuring with insurance changes as seen in Massachusetts.  When you read comments about that situation you can see it is all based on emotion rather than with the knowledge to read through the acutal situation to discuss the reall issues.  Most health care programs which mandate a degree do include some type of health care system management and research overview. If health care is going to survive and be able to still offer quality care, the providers must be better educated at the beginning with a better knowledge of the system. Many people just listen to the politicians speak and most will vote just on how the they are dressed because they have no idea what is being discussed or how it affects them. I find that in health care where some complain about cutbacks but have no idea how reimbursement, insurance or funding works.

 

I see RNs being turned down who are applying for jobs with excellent clinical skills according to the referrals. But, they did not get their BSN degree even after knowing for several years that was preferred. It has been advocated by educators in the community colleges for the ASNs to go to the BSN program as quickly as possible. Managers have encouraged their employees to continue their education and must be forward thinking. Health care is always advancing and the industry now wants people who can advance with it rather than excuses for not meeting the expectations of your profession.  Yes, I understand "EMS is different" and degrees may not be needed for what you do or so the argument has been. But, I also hear the complaints from EMTs and Paramedics of not getting respect, not paid enough and feeling disposable by their employers. Looking at the education for your profession, it really has not changed very much over the past 45 years.   Freedom House ambulance had an extensive training program but it also inspired those involved to continue their education beyond the regular Paramedic training they received.  Maybe if the ambulance service had not been dissolved mostly due to racial issues of that time it could have been a great role model for EMS today.

 

I also think an employer should provide most of the required certs inhouse to have control over quality. Just carrying an ACLS card or most of the cert cards which are usually based on a no fail type of class, gives very little indication of one's abilities.  UCSD's program for ART/BART. has also helped produce change in resuscitation.
 
Tim Montague said:

I greatly appreciate everyone's input into this topic, all of which is valid and relevant. IMO there is value in everything, value in weekend certs and value in structured accredited courses. Each provide something different. I'm not saying that a two week TC3 course is going to make anyone a supermedic, any more than a Bachelors in EMS will. The value of Certs is exposure, familiarity, and introduction... the value of accredited course pursuit is greater in-depth understanding of scope and practice. Neither of which really means much of anything without the catalyst of experience.

Everyone who comes across this thread must evaluate for themselves their objectives and the available educational opportunities to them and decide which is best suited for them, the level of care they provide and their career path.

 

As 'professionals' we are all challenged with creating opportunities to elevate ourselves professionally, and elevate our profession as a whole to ensure that we provide the best care we can at anytime, and earn the respect of our peers through demonstrated competency. It is not just about the alphabet behind our name, but instead how we perform when called upon.

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Permalink Reply by Scott Lancaster on September 19, 2012 at 4:00pm

Geri,

I am not going to get into this again with you. I know the tests well. Simply being a blow-hard doesn't make you either appear nor does it actually make you intelligent. You know nothing about the people who post on here, so instead of bloviating about how great you are, perhaps shutting up and actually reading would be helpful.

P.s., "But I will agree the CCFN is not that difficult although I had a few years of critical care experience so it was stuff that I should have already known from actual experience and my education." There is no CCFN exam, I assume you are talking about hte CFRN exam, if you had the certification one would think you would now the name.

Geri Jacobson said:

Do not confuse the CCRN and the CFRN. They are from different testing organizations and have different requirements.  Do a little online research to know what each test actually is before you make a statement saying they are the same.

 

At least with the CCRN, the RNs taking it have at minimum an Associates degree and must have some ICU experience in the age group they are testing for. If they want to test for another age group, they must have more experience with that age. 

Do not confuse the CCRN and the CFRN. They are from different testing organizations and have different requirements.  Do a little online research to know what each test actually is before you make a statement saying they are the same.

 

 

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