How does your compensation compare with that of your peers in EMS?

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Permalink Reply by Robert Sullivan on October 19, 2009 at 11:18pm

The town of Amherst, NY, is an affluent Buffalo suburb. Their ambulance service is a private company that receives no subsidy. Zoning rules prohibit buildings being built over a certain height, but you'll find more ladder trucks there than in Las Vegas. While hundreds of millions of dollars worth of fire equipment sit unused, any talk of consolidation is quickly shot down. I've seen this over and over in lots of other communities. There's government money for some things, but apparently not EMS.

As far as the "people will die" argument if we don't keep enabling a broken system, minimally trained paramedics are out there now killing people who would have survived a taxi ride to the hospital. Nothing will change about how EMS is funded until there's real incentive to.

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Permalink Reply by Skip Kirkwood on October 20, 2009 at 8:31am

Hey Robert,

I grew up 3 blocks from the Amherst border, in Tonanwanda. My whole family still lives there.

The citizens of Amherst have made a political choice to have well-funded social clubs that operate fire apparatus on occasion. They've also made the decision to have no EMS system - just a private ambulance company that may or may not come when called, with no supervision. The EMS advocates, if there are any, have not organized or become politically effective. The fire guys have. If the citizens want more EMS, they can get it - witness the Tonawanda Police Department paramedics that were created to supplement the regional "non-system" that serves most of western NY.

It's all about politics, organization, and advocacy.

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Permalink Reply by Bill on November 4, 2009 at 9:13am

With all of the discussion here I feel I have to weigh in on this.

I work for a very small county service. We have to cover about 1,000 suare miles of some really rough terrain here in West Texas.

Our service has great equipment, excellent training, aggressive protocols and a medical director that truly cares about the patients and us.

In our county here we have no hospital. The nearest ER is 26 miles away. The larger, better equiped hospital (that most of the area residents prefer to be transported to (if their condition permits) is 33 miles away. Looking at the statistics our average run takes about an hour from call to hospital. The next nearest ambulance is 25 miles away. But, that service calls us to assist them with transfers and back-up 9-1-1 service. The next nearest service is 60 miles away.

We make a livable wage if the overtime is figured in. Without it my family would be well below the poverty level. Our director just got done making a presentation to our board of directors to get us a raise. We got it. But doing so will mean there is going to be belt-tightening in other areas now. There have been a very few citizens that have advocated doing away with the EMS system here. The vast majority clearly understand that the EMS system is their lifeline to medical care. There are more than just a few people still alive due to our service having the quality of care that we provide. This is due to the combination of dedicated board of directors, very involved medical director, and EMS crews that are passionate about giving the highest quality of care we are capable of.

I can see where the current economy might mean the demise of several of the nearby services in this area, possibly my own. As a citizen I don't want to have to rely on another underpaid, overworked service that will have to respond from as far away as 60 miles to provide "emergency" transport for my wife or myself. As a taxpayer I don't want to loose our service. But, with a total population of about 3,500 people in our county there is only so much money available to fund our service. Before somebody responds with something along the lines of let the patient's pay for services rendered. Alot of folks here are on fixed incomes. Something about getting blood out of a rock comes to mind.

There is no easy answers here. I hope and pray that from within this group of EMS professionals we can find workable, realistic solutions to the almost universal problem.

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Permalink Reply by Eric D. Liddy Sr. on November 7, 2009 at 7:38pm

I work full time for Detroit Fire Department EMS Division. Here's what our compensation is currently:

An EMT-Medic earns $19.65 per hour and night shifters earn an extra .65 per hour, get triple time pay for holidays, medical, optical, dental, life insurance, pension, annuities and deferred compensation if chosen. They also receive FSLA for 4 hours per pay which amounts to 4 hours of O.T.

Paramedics are paid $24.01 per hour, same with shift differential for night shifts and same benefits/retirement packages as mentioned above.

For myself, I earn about $60,000.00 per year in wages with Detroit EMS, triple time and a minimal amount of O.T. I still work a 2nd job as a paid on call firefighter as I have a large family and I pay child support for 3 of my children that is an astronomical amount. I pay over $100.00 per pay for my Blue Care Network, Dental and Optical coverage. I pay into my annuities at a rate of 7% of my gross wages, union dues, life insurance coverage and then the taxes leaving me with a net paycheck of roughly less than $650.00 per pay. (Bi-weekly.)

ALL EMS personnel should be paid higher salaries in my own honest opinion to match those of police officers and firefighters. EMS is traditionally THE lowest paid of the public safety triangle by national standards. We are subjected to violence, accidents a disease and yet we are always the least respected and lowest paid.

I have to whole heartedly agree with Skip here. Why should ANY of us have to work for a wage that is not enough to support yourself or your family and offer a viable benefits package. In addition, I agree with his other statements as he has posted here...(I'm only going to ramble if I list them all LOL!!!)

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Permalink Reply by Eric D. Liddy Sr. on November 7, 2009 at 7:43pm

And that sir is why we have EMSLA. More people need to become involved with them and with them, more legislation can be passed for EMS and by doing this, we will have less overworked, higher quality of care in EMS. And I always told myself that when I became involved with fire service and EMS 21 years ago, I would NEVER become involved in the politics aspect...boy was I ever wrong...

Skip Kirkwood said:

Hey Robert,

I grew up 3 blocks from the Amherst border, in Tonanwanda. My whole family still lives there.

The citizens of Amherst have made a political choice to have well-funded social clubs that operate fire apparatus on occasion. They've also made the decision to have no EMS system - just a private ambulance company that may or may not come when called, with no supervision. The EMS advocates, if there are any, have not organized or become politically effective. The fire guys have. If the citizens want more EMS, they can get it - witness the Tonawanda Police Department paramedics that were created to supplement the regional "non-system" that serves most of western NY.

It's all about politics, organization, and advocacy.

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Permalink Reply by Skip Kirkwood on November 8, 2009 at 8:07am

Eric, if that is what EMSLA is TALKING about, I hope that it starts DOING soon. Nobody I know has even HEARD of EMSLA, or anything new about an EMS labor movement. Please start spending some money, taking some positions, and doing something visible. Now's the time!

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Permalink Reply by Eric D. Liddy Sr. on November 8, 2009 at 11:59am

Emergency Medical Services Labor Alliance. The President is the retired Chief of Boston EMS and he is also 2nd in charge of FEMA right now and they are working on legislation right now. They have been around for quite some time and I encourage people to apply for membership.

Skip Kirkwood said:

Eric, if that is what EMSLA is TALKING about, I hope that it starts DOING soon. Nobody I know has even HEARD of EMSLA, or anything new about an EMS labor movement. Please start spending some money, taking some positions, and doing something visible. Now's the time!

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Permalink Reply by Skip Kirkwood on November 8, 2009 at 2:23pm

My point is that nobody has heard of EMSLA in the broad EMS community. If this group is doing something, please start telling people about it - not here in a forum, but in the major EMS publications, the media, etc.

I think you're confused about the EMSLA leadership.

Rich Serino just retired as the chief of Boston EMS and he is now the deputy administrator at FEMA. The EMSLA web site lists Jamie Orsino as the president (http://www.emsla.org/BoardMembers/tabid/55/language/en-US/Default.asp). Both are great guys, but they are not the same person.

My point is that if EMSLA is going to become a "force" for EMS it has got to gain some visibility and traction in the EMS community, where currently 99% of the people haven't even heard of it. People don't join organizations until they know what the organization is trying to do FOR THEM. EMSLA is not there yet. Somebody needs to get to work informing the rank and file of EMS about what's going on!

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Permalink Reply by Thomas Durkee on November 8, 2009 at 10:03pm

Excuse me Skip and Eric - -

Isn't James Orsino head of the Boston Police Patrolman's Association? Or is it one-and-the-same person?

I think he is the head of BOTH the Boston PPA and EMSLA (EMS Labor Alliance), correct? Did this Boston Police Officer inherit the President's job when Rich Serino got the bump up to FEMA?

I'm not arguing that Jamie isn't a good person, but if it is a force in the EMS labor movement, I wonder how a Boston Police Officer may help? Or is he both a sworn officer of the law AND an EMS professional?

- - it may just be my ignorance, but if someone could clarify, I'd appreciate it.


Tom

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Permalink Reply by Skip Kirkwood on November 9, 2009 at 8:08am

Jamie's an EMS guy. The Boston EMS union is a division of the police union.

Part of my concern - EMS represented by the cops' union.

Hard to imagine that the chief would be heavily involved in a labor union. I can't speak for Rich, but I'll lay a wager.

Thomas Durkee said:

Excuse me Skip and Eric - -

Isn't James Orsino head of the Boston Police Patrolman's Association? Or is it one-and-the-same person?

I think he is the head of BOTH the Boston PPA and EMSLA (EMS Labor Alliance), correct? Did this Boston Police Officer inherit the President's job when Rich Serino got the bump up to FEMA?

I'm not arguing that Jamie isn't a good person, but if it is a force in the EMS labor movement, I wonder how a Boston Police Officer may help? Or is he both a sworn officer of the law AND an EMS professional?

- - it may just be my ignorance, but if someone could clarify, I'd appreciate it.


Tom

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Permalink Reply by Robert Sullivan on November 9, 2009 at 12:14pm

Skip,

I used chased the Tonawanda Parmedics around on my bicycle. They've recently hired some of the good people I used to work with at Twin City and my parents would LOVE me to apply there. It amazes me that the middle-class community has the only third service (sort of) EMS agency in the region while more affluent ones rely on volunteers or private companies. They've managed to become a political fixture in the community, and could be a case study on the right way to promote an EMS agency in a difficulty climate.

Skip Kirkwood said:

Hey Robert,

I grew up 3 blocks from the Amherst border, in Tonanwanda. My whole family still lives there.

The citizens of Amherst have made a political choice to have well-funded social clubs that operate fire apparatus on occasion. They've also made the decision to have no EMS system - just a private ambulance company that may or may not come when called, with no supervision. The EMS advocates, if there are any, have not organized or become politically effective. The fire guys have. If the citizens want more EMS, they can get it - witness the Tonawanda Police Department paramedics that were created to supplement the regional "non-system" that serves most of western NY.

It's all about politics, organization, and advocacy.

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