Expelled squad members.

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Paula Miller on October 20, 2009 at 4:09pm

Our company has a policy that you have to be an active member for 3 years before you can run for office. That helps to prevent this type of thing--in 3 years you will generally see a person's true colors.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by asysin2leads on October 20, 2009 at 5:08pm

Lemme guess... New Jersey, right?

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Chance Gearheart on October 20, 2009 at 10:20pm

Dolores, this is a major problem I have with volunteer departments. The whole system of an "election" for officers. These people who are elected to positions may not have the qualifications necessary for a fire officer, and often times they are friends of the department who are promoted to the position because of such. Professional departments require things such as time, training, and promotional tests to be sure a person is even remotely qualified for their position. Now, some volunteer departments do this, and it avoids a lot of trouble, but the election system, in my mind, is responsable for the attitudes of stagnation and irresponsable/unsafe behavior of a lot of volunteer departments. Leaders and bosses are going to, for lack of a better word, piss off other members in doing their job, and they need to be able to do so without worrying about their position because they upset someone's "buddy".

You can only do so much to influence the election, and the only option you have is to make sure to maintain a close watch on this person and try to ensure that proper disciplianry channels are followed. At the very worst, you may have to quit should you feel that your safety or professiional licensure is threatened.

I came from a volunteer fire department where, thankfully, our district was blessed with experience people who knew what they were doing, and did a great job at it. However, other districts often refused to work together, at the detrement of patient care and safety, often elected unqualified and poor leaders because they were "buddies".

I would love to see a nationwide or state-specific definition of the actual job descriptions of officers in a fire department, with a minimum training level they must have, and experience level necesary to hold these positions. I don't think an EMS or Fire Lieutenant should be someone who just graduated EMT school.

Also understand that everyone has a story when it comes to disciplinary action, and what is told by an employer may not be the whole, or the truth; and vice versa the same is true. However, any squad should approach a person with such a history with a measure of caution while also not alienating the person. For all you know, they could have been a whistleblower who was kicked out for reporting something.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Dana Schilling on October 21, 2009 at 3:29pm

Oh, you are so right on! The buddy system is what plays out in so many volunteer squads. They all want to be an officer and nobody wants to spend any time volunteering to cover shifts. We made a mistake to get people on our squad by paying volunteers, but the newer people are into there own thing and still don't want to spend time running squad. They just want the prestige of having a title and saying they belong to a rescue squad. Oh and don't forget wearing our logo and having the lights and siren syndrome. About the fellow running for chief. We do have a 3 year limit on membership, but unfortunately you don't need to be anything more than an EMT to hold office. Some people are still very good leaders as EMTs but those who made it to there position because they were a brown noser----Shame on you! You do not help your dept. only yourself. I agree with the statement that maybe this guy was doing the right thing and the buddy system threw him out: however, we had a person on our dept. who came on from another squad which would not say anything about the person. We found the person to be causing all kinds of problems in our dept. once securely there for a year. Things have be better since that person left.

Chance Gearheart said:

Dolores, this is a major problem I have with volunteer departments. The whole system of an "election" for officers. These people who are elected to positions may not have the qualifications necessary for a fire officer, and often times they are friends of the department who are promoted to the position because of such. Professional departments require things such as time, training, and promotional tests to be sure a person is even remotely qualified for their position. Now, some volunteer departments do this, and it avoids a lot of trouble, but the election system, in my mind, is responsable for the attitudes of stagnation and irresponsable/unsafe behavior of a lot of volunteer departments. Leaders and bosses are going to, for lack of a better word, piss off other members in doing their job, and they need to be able to do so without worrying about their position because they upset someone's "buddy".

You can only do so much to influence the election, and the only option you have is to make sure to maintain a close watch on this person and try to ensure that proper disciplianry channels are followed. At the very worst, you may have to quit should you feel that your safety or professiional licensure is threatened.

I came from a volunteer fire department where, thankfully, our district was blessed with experience people who knew what they were doing, and did a great job at it. However, other districts often refused to work together, at the detrement of patient care and safety, often elected unqualified and poor leaders because they were "buddies".

I would love to see a nationwide or state-specific definition of the actual job descriptions of officers in a fire department, with a minimum training level they must have, and experience level necesary to hold these positions. I don't think an EMS or Fire Lieutenant should be someone who just graduated EMT school.

Also understand that everyone has a story when it comes to disciplinary action, and what is told by an employer may not be the whole, or the truth; and vice versa the same is true. However, any squad should approach a person with such a history with a measure of caution while also not alienating the person. For all you know, they could have been a whistleblower who was kicked out for reporting something.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by asysin2leads on October 21, 2009 at 7:06pm

Okay, this has to be New Jersey. Absolutely has to be. No other place on earth considers it to be prestigious to be part of a volunteer BLS service.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by blair4630 on October 22, 2009 at 1:08am

I also am a volunteer firefighter, and without taking up additional space, I'll just say dido to chances first paragraph.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Earl Culvey on October 22, 2009 at 8:05am

Dolores, I would first look at your company By-laws and see what they say about "qualifications, time served requirements." I am hoping like many other places there is a membership length for officers. I know at my volunteer fire company it is 5 years for chief and 3 years for any line officer under that. Another thing to look at, is this person well liked in your organization. If the guy isn't well liked, you probably don't have much to worry about. Also, volunteers tend to be very gossipy. At least in my area anyhow. Ask around why he was expelled if you can get that and maybe put some bugs in peoples ears if it is something bad. It may just be as simple as a conflict of personalities. I have seen that one happen before.

And to those that think being a volunteer BLS provider isn't prestigious. Well, that is all in the eyes of the beholder. Do you think it isn't prestigious because its "BLS" or because it is "volunteer." Either way that is the wrong way to look at it. I believe everyone that serves in this profession, whether compensated or not holds a prestigious position. We all do the same job and for the most part are held to the same training standards. Yes, sometimes the "vollies" don't have as much experience as the paid guys, but I have found many that are just as good, if not better practitioners than any paid guy/gal out there.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Joe P. on October 22, 2009 at 11:24am

Earl Culvey said:

And to those that think being a volunteer BLS provider isn't prestigious. Well, that is all in the eyes of the beholder. Do you think it isn't prestigious because its "BLS" or because it is "volunteer."

D. People who go into medicine at any level (first responder through physician) for prestige are going into medicine for the wrong reason and are idiots. This includes the EMS wackers who spend more money on lights and sirens for their POV than they spend on their education.

A far as my view on the effect volunteer organizations has on EMS, we already had a mega thread on vollies, and I have no reason to restate my position on them. I'll probably just be called a terrorist by them again anyways despite even the JEMS volunteer columnist essentially admitting that my views held a lot of merit between two of his columns (volunteers do it for the lights and sirens and volunteers are one of the reason why the required level of training is so low).

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by asysin2leads on October 22, 2009 at 2:43pm

You know, I consider myself, as a paramedic, as having a respectable blue collar job. That's about it. There is no prestige involved. These threads lay bare why I have such a problem with some volunteer organizations. Expelled members. Buddy systems. Drama. This is all to provide basic life support and transport. God help us. I say, no more squads, no more line officers, no more sergeants and by laws and crap, let's just give two paramedics an ambulance and a road map. It would solve it all.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by dr-exmedic on October 22, 2009 at 7:44pm

asysin2leads said:

Okay, this has to be New Jersey. Absolutely has to be. No other place on earth considers it to be prestigious to be part of a volunteer BLS service.

People will take pride in anything that makes them feel special, and I think helping people (however you define it) certainly counts, though some people don't even need that high a bar. Hell, people will take pride in accomplishments that aren't even theirs--I'm living smack in the middle of Steeler Nation and work a couple blocks from its Ground Zero (Heinz Field), so I see that every day (and more on game day).

Next time you're on the eastern seaboard, let me take you through PA. In addition to the BLS ambulance prestige, we also have people who are quite proud to be FFs--despite the fact that some of them are not even certified and have collapsed water mains at several fires in a row. (The real kicker: one of the guys who volunteers there works for the township's water authority as his real job.)

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jeff Gaudio on October 23, 2009 at 12:28am

That person shouldn't be in your department to begin with.
-First of all, since they got expelled from the other department, they obviously did something really bad to recieve that course of action.
-Second, they completely lied to you and your brother/sister ems personnel.
-Third, they want to jump to the top just like that. That goes to the old saying" the ones who want an officer spot that bad are the least qualified for the position"

That person should be thrown out of your department for lying to you guys and completely disrespected you.

Just another wannabe who wants the glamour of the portable, and fancy title. Unbelievable.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by asysin2leads on October 23, 2009 at 12:51pm

Dude, I live on the Eastern seaboard. How do you think I have so much experience with the New Jersey squad shenanigans? BTW, how do you collapse a water main? Cause water hammer, I assume?

dr-exmedic said:

asysin2leads said:

Okay, this has to be New Jersey. Absolutely has to be. No other place on earth considers it to be prestigious to be part of a volunteer BLS service.

People will take pride in anything that makes them feel special, and I think helping people (however you define it) certainly counts, though some people don't even need that high a bar. Hell, people will take pride in accomplishments that aren't even theirs--I'm living smack in the middle of Steeler Nation and work a couple blocks from its Ground Zero (Heinz Field), so I see that every day (and more on game day).

Next time you're on the eastern seaboard, let me take you through PA. In addition to the BLS ambulance prestige, we also have people who are quite proud to be FFs--despite the fact that some of them are not even certified and have collapsed water mains at several fires in a row. (The real kicker: one of the guys who volunteers there works for the township's water authority as his real job.)

▶ Reply to This

▶ Reply to This

• First
• Previous
• Next
• Last